Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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Support ends for the 2006 wikitext editor[edit]

The 2006 wikitext editor will be officially removed next week, on the normal deployment train (i.e., Thursday, 25 October 2018 for the English Wikipedia). This has been discussed since at least 2011, was planned for at least three different months in 2017, and is finally happening.

This toolbar is being removed from MediaWiki.

If you are using this toolbar (and almost none of you are), then you will be given no toolbar at all (the 2003 wikitext editor). This default was chosen so that your editing windows will open even faster, and to avoid cluttering the window with the larger toolbars (a particularly important consideration for Wikisource's PagePreviews). Of course, if you decide that you would prefer the 2010 or 2017 wikitext editors (or a gadget like WikEd), then you are free to change your preferences at any time.

Although it is not a very popular script overall, I know that some editors strongly prefer this particular tool for specific reasons, such as regularly using the <sub> or <sup> buttons. If you are one of its fans, then you might want to know that some long-time editors are talking about re-implementing its best features as a volunteer-supported user script. I believe that any announcements about that project will be made at mw:Contributors/Projects/Removal of the 2006 wikitext editor. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:36, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

And if you're thinking "Yeah, she said that three times last year..." – No, really, the fourth time's the charm! This time, they really do think it's not going to completely break the wikis. ;-) Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:40, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
Best of luck, I'll be sorry to see it go! In case you're interested in some anecdata, it was the codeeditor that really did it for me. I like the shortness and simplicity of the old one, but the linting is just too useful for js/css. ~ Amory (utc) 21:03, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
How does one know which toolbar one is using? DuncanHill (talk) 21:37, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
See Help:Edit toolbar. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:06, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
Or see mw:Editor which has an overview of all different editors that are currently supported. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 17:59, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
I'm with DuncanHill, i'm afraid; completely non-techclever, i simply found a Preference which says "Show edit toolbar" and i've had it active for years, i think. Is that the toolbar that's going? How do i choose another one? The only other Preference i've seen talks about an enhanced toolbar, which rather frightens me.... Happy days (or possibly not, if i don't understand toolbars), LindsayHello 15:41, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
The editing preferences are unusually confusing, even by Wikipedia standards. Some of the pref items silently override the others, and it's especially difficult to explain to new editors. I've proposed improvements at phab:T202921, but unless that wins the m:Community Wishlist (starts in a few weeks), I don't think it will happen any time soon.
Lindsay, if you're a non-technical person, then you might want to consider trying the visual editor again. It is really vastly better than it was back in the day. If you don't have separate "Edit" and "Edit source" tabs already, then look for a little pencil icon (not the highlighter marker pen) and switch to it. It works mostly like a normal word processing document, and is really the only sensible way to do some things, like adding or removing a column from a large wikitext table.
If you prefer wikitext, then I think you would likely be happy with the light blue "enhanced" toolbar. It has been the default for all users since approximately 2010, and it gets used thousands and thousands of times each day with very few complaints.
Finally, if you don't actually use the buttons in the little toolbar (which is not unusual for experienced editors), then your easiest option is probably doing nothing. In that case, the toolbar, which you're already not using, will just go away all by itself. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:22, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
P.S. I fully and wholly expect a lot of editors to turn up here on the day in question, who as always likely missed all the announcements, because they just don't follow fora like these. Please keep in mind, that according to the data, last year 1500 en.wp editors making a single edit in a 1 month period had the toolbar enabled. Note this doesn't equal USED the toolbar, many people simply have it enabled because they always have. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 17:59, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Of course they will. It's just impossible to keep up with everything. That's why I appreciate it so much when people ping me for interesting discussions. This will also be announced in m:Tech/News on Monday, as well as the Editing newsletter, which will go out next week (Tuesday?).
Schedule update: There's been a slight delay. But it's finally up on the Beta Cluster. It doesn't seem to have broken anything obvious, so it should reach this wiki next WP:THURSDAY.
Tech folks here might want to take a look at what Arkanosis has been doing about a replacement script, especially that edit about a gadget for Monobook users. (Hmm, I wonder whether the copies of gadgets are up to date on the Beta Cluster? If they're not, that might explain why last week's watchlist problem wasn't visible until it hit production.) Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:37, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
We have a script! See mw:Contributors/Projects/Removal of the 2006 wikitext editor#Alternatives for most of the details.
Also, based upon the conversation at w:fr:Discussion utilisateur:Arkanosis#Page, we probably have some scripts/gadgets that will break. I think that this search will find the gadgets. Calling all interface admins... Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:00, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
Reminder: It's almost WP:THURSDAY, and this change is riding the deployment train. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 06:03, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

So, and this is me showing my techability again, did this happen or not happen? I'm sure it's past the date Whatamidoing (WMF) mentioned in the opening statement, and it's also after the next Thursday too, but i still have the same toolbar when i edit which i understood was going away. Am i misunderstanding, even less clever than i thought, or did something change the plans? Happy days, LindsayHello 16:13, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

It looks like says that yesterday's deployment (the big weekly update of everything) had a problem on the Wikipedias and was rolled back after 10 minutes. My best guess is that phab:T208549 is the reason they reverted it. This change (and all of the others in the weekly update) has been made to all of the non-Wikipedias already, and it will happen here as soon as they re-deploy, which looks like it will be after 18:00 UTC Monday. So you are correct, and it appears that you have a brief reprieve. ;-) Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:11, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Well, unless gadget maintainers figure it out first, with only two days left till deployment it's probably not worth other editors and developers trying to guess what will break when the deployment gets rolled out. Thanks for the heads up. Deryck C. 11:38, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Update: It happened.

The German Wikipedia appears to have had a problem in a local gadget, and they may not be the only ones. If you encounter complaints, I recommend that your first question be this: Are you talking about the 2006 wikitext editor (picture), or about mw:CharInsert (picture)? Only the blue-gray toolbar at the top of the editing box is supposed to be removed. Access to special characters is meant to remain in place. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:20, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Please let me know if that toolbar gets reconstituted as a user script. I can probably figure out how to do no-wiki tags manually, but the string for hidden comments defeats me, and neither seems to have been included in the "enhanced" toolbar. Numbers using a tool are not a good indication of its usefulness; editors do many different kinds of tasks, using different hardware, and with different technical backgrounds. Yngvadottir (talk) 22:27, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

  • I use monobook with the green on black gadget. The "advanced" toolbar is almost unreadable - white icons on a very pale blue background. It also takes ages to load. Is there an alternative that actually works? Or is this another of those "improvements" that just makes things worse and we are told to be grateful for? DuncanHill (talk) 23:50, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
    • As noted in the comment on 29 October that begins with the words "We have a script!", there is already a replacement user script available. You can follow the directions at mw:Contributors/Projects/Removal of the 2006 wikitext editor#Alternatives to install it in common.js (or your global.js at Meta, if you edit multiple wikis and want it on all projects). It's also possible for any interface admin to turn it into a local gadget. Then you'd only have to open Special:Preferences and tick the box. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:09, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
      • The instructions there are almost incomprehensible, and I lack the language skills to translate the French. DuncanHill (talk) 00:13, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
      • Thanks, Whatamidoing (WMF), I actually did look there after posting, and I can read the French. I would have considered asking for help installing something, which would be a first; the warning about damaging my computer by downloading a script has always stopped me, but I really can't do without hidden comments. Nowiki I think I can learn to do manually, and my current laptop allows me to type tildes to sign. But ... guess which button is missing both from the screenshot of the bar and from the script? So the WMF has now forced me to make a wallet card with the code for a hidden comment on it, to carry at all times. Way to go, simply for the sake of making changes. Yngvadottir (talk) 00:37, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
        • Have you looked in the CharInsert/EditTools for the codes you want? It's in between the bottom of the editing window and the top of the Edit summary box. Set the menu to "Wiki markup" if it isn't there already. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:53, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
          • This may be the moment to point out I use Monobook. In any event, I doubt such a thing is hidden among chart codes, and I have the alt chars (Latin) chart open all the time in that location for the things where I can't immediately remember the Microsoft ctrl+ code. (My head is actually surprisingly full of codes to get nonstandard things to display, which is why I deeply resent something unique to this site that requires a string of unmemorizable symbols being removed from clickability.) Yngvadottir (talk) 01:08, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
        • Whatamidoing (WMF) Where do I go to make a request for those instructions to be re-written in a way that makes sense , and 2) get the French stuff translated too? It tells me to import things to local media wiki whatever the hell that is, and lots of other stuff that might make sense to you but is meaningless to me. Is there perhaps some kind of "technical" desk where people could get help? DuncanHill (talk) 01:37, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
          • I think the answer to that question depends upon whether you're the only person at this wiki that wants this. If you're not, then it's possible that someone else (i.e., someone with more technical skill than me ;-) would sort it out, and then you could just copy what they did. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 02:47, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
            • WP:ITSNOTTHURSDAYYET. --Izno (talk) 04:12, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
              • 1. ^ this and 2. I asked Amory about this a couple of days ago and she seemed to think that perhaps TheDJ had begun importing it. I also use Monobook and would like to continue doing so. Killiondude (talk) 04:59, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
                Killiondude, I have no intention of bringing that thing back. I'm maintaining more than enough old junk and it's also why I didn't protest the removal from MediaWiki core. If someone prepares all the necessary work, as an iadmin I will of course review and deploy peoples contribution. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 09:45, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Whatamidoing, DuncanHill is certainly not "the only person at this wiki who wants this", as you're well aware from when you asked a year ago; as you're also well aware, the reason the only people who were using this are people who joined pre-2010 isn't that the 2010 editor is superior, but that the devs forced the slow editor on all new signups and buried the option to change it in preferences so most editors were never even aware that a toolbar existed that didn't take forever to load, and consequently either disabled the new toolbar altogether or put up with waiting for it to load each time. Can you—or someone at the WMF—please explain in a way that doesn't involve my needing to learn French what steps I need to take to re-enable it? ‑ Iridescent 19:42, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
  • DuncanHill, sounds like you have a problem with the green on black gadget. You should ask it's maintainer to improve it. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 09:46, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
    This should improve the green on black gadget to where it works well enough with WE2010. Seems someone started that work in the past and didn't completely finish it. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:05, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
    TheDJ I don't see any difference - the icons are still almost invisible, white on a pale blue background. I don't have any problems with the green on black gadget until somebody else goes and breaks something else! DuncanHill (talk) 14:29, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
    Now it's changed and I can see the icons. It really is a lot less useful than the old toolbar, especially in the way it hides the cite templates (and then hides parts of them even once you've opened them). DuncanHill (talk) 15:15, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
    And now it's changed back and the icons are invisible again. DuncanHill (talk) 16:30, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Hi all (noting Iridescent and DuncanHill); I've taken the liberty of importing the script that WAID mentioned above into the English Wikipedia and translating it. It's in my userspace right now (I'd need to request interface admin to move it to Mediawiki). Y'all can install it by adding the line: mw.loader.load("/w/index.php?title=User:Writ_Keeper/Scripts/legacyToolbar.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript"); to your common.js page. Let me know if there are any issues or concerns, or if I've done something horribly wrong. Writ Keeper  20:15, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Excellent, and thank you. (I suppose there's no way to bring back the "cite" button as well, which IIRC was a separate script? One of my main peeves with the 2010 editor, aside from the slowness to load and the space it took up, was that the citation tools were so much worse than those of the 2006 version.) ‑ Iridescent 20:23, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
  • No worries! If we can dig up the separate script, I can probably convert it over pretty easily. Otherwise, you'll have to describe how the button worked, and I can recreate it. (I always do refs manually, which is probably pretty timewasting.) Writ Keeper  20:26, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Was the cite button part of Wikipedia:RefToolbar. I too appreciate your work on making the script work, and echo Iridiscent's desire for trhe cite button. DuncanHill (talk) 20:29, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
It looks like it was part of Wikipedia:RefToolbar, but because it auto-detected which toolbar you were using—and the WMF removing "edit toolbar" from preferences has now made us all appear to have toolbars disabled altogether—it's unable to figure out where to display the "cite" button. Seriously, sometimes I wish the WMF would tell us which of their many management consultants told them that "run fast and break things" was the best way to operate, so I can track them down and every Thursday disrupt them trying to go about their work. ‑ Iridescent 20:39, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
@Writ Keeper: Thank you! Does your version include the hidden comment button, or is there any way to add that? Yngvadottir (talk) 20:29, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Hidden comment should be fairly easy to add. I'll look at both of those. Writ Keeper  20:31, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
@Yngvadottir: You should be good to go for hidden comment. Writ Keeper  20:58, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Thank you thank you thank you! That appears to have worked. Yngvadottir (talk) 21:04, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
@Writ Keeper: There was a "create redirect" button too, which was very useful. DuncanHill (talk) 21:21, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Indeed, the "redirect" button was (and is, until now) the one I use most often. Makes it very quick and easy to set up new redirects. Here's the old toolbar, that I really liked:
RefToolbar 1.0.png
It looks like I might have to spend some time playing around with all the various editor options (apart from VE, which I loathe). Haven't bothered to do this so far, since I use an external editor for most of my editing. A big "thank you" to Writ Keeper for his work on this. --NSH001 (talk) 11:44, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Implemented the redirect button. Still working on the cite button; it's mostly working, but it's a complicated script and there are some apparently old bugs that need ironing out. @Iri: I've disconnected the URL/DOI/etc. lookup buttons; they connect to an offsite script that I don't know about and can't vouch for. Let me know if that was an important feature for y'all. Writ Keeper  15:55, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Lookup wasn't something I ever used—I found that because it imported the formatting quirks of the source website (curly quotes, allcaps, etc) it took more time to check its output than it did to input the citation manually field-by-field. I know that trainers use the URL/DOI lookup in training courses for new editors as a "see, citing sources aren't as scary as the raw reference markup makes it look" exercise, but I would imagine they're likely using vanilla default settings so as not to confuse people who've just created the account, so this toolbar won't appear. Paging Redrose64, NeilN, SpinningSpark, LindsayH, Keith D and Diego Moya as the people (other than me) who said they were still using it last time the WMF claimed nobody was still using this, who may be able to give a better idea of whether people consider this functionality important. ‑ Iridescent 17:08, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, Writ Keeper. I've always been fond of that citation tool, especially for Google books. I like it better than WP:ProveIt, but I've had to make do with since. howcheng {chat} 17:15, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
@Iridescent: I turned off that toolbar when it got too slow to load. Virtually all of its functionality is available in the "⧼MediaWiki:Gadget-charinsert⧽" gadget, which is enabled by default - it amazes me just how many people claim that they can't do something, and all the while it's in that gadget, usually when "Wiki markup" is selected. A few buttons, like the "cite" one, are absent, but I never used that. The interminable whining at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Archive 208#Doesn't MOS:DASH contradict WP:ACCESS? is a similar case of people not knowing that they can use the same gadget to make dashes. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:20, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
The charinsert box is better than nothing, but it adds an additional layer of complexity with no obvious benefit; as with the 2010 toolbar, the functions are there, but you need to switch to the right page to access them. Yes, it's only one extra click (or two extra clicks if you switch back out of "wiki markup" afterwards), but over time the difference between one click and two adds up. The charinsert tool is particularly user-unfriendly when using a mobile device to edit, which we're always being told is the future, as the buttons are so small and fiddly (and using the 2010 toolbar on a mobile device is also horrible—unless you're in a 4G spot, you can literally watch the buttons load one at a time). ‑ Iridescent 23:50, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
It's no extra clicks if you leave it set to "Wiki markup", which is what I do - I occasionally need the things in Cyrillic or Greek, after which I switch it back to Wiki markup. This set includes all of those in the "Insert" set, which is where it starts if you've never used it, have switched devices, or have zapped your cookies. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 00:20, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Hey, allUser:DuncanHillUser:Iridescent, the RefToolbar is ready for trial. Owing to its complexity, it's a separate script from the toolbar itself; you can install it by adding mw.loader.load("/w/index.php?title=User:Writ_Keeper/Scripts/legacyRefToolbar.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript"); to your common.js page on a new line, similar to the installation for the rest of the toolbar. Let me know how it works, and if there's anything else missing from it or the toolbar. Thanks! Writ Keeper  19:12, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
  • On some very limited testing, it looks to be working fine. Many, many thanks. ‑ Iridescent 19:17, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
    • Thank you, looking good. Please can you take over from the Foundation? DuncanHill (talk) 19:20, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
    • Thank you so much Writ Keeper. I'm another editor who was still using it and I am eternally grateful :) Pawnkingthree (talk) 20:16, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
      • @Writ Keeper: I've created my common.js page and copied and pasted that code into it. I am using monobook on Chrome and I have the 2010 tab turned off. However it doesn't appear to be showing up for me? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 16:26, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
        • @The C of E: legacyRefToolbar adds a cite button to legacyToolbar which must already be loaded (maybe this should happen automatically). Load both with the below code. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:43, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

MonoBook editing toolbar removed[edit]

I haven't had the toolbar visible since last night (the older version, of course), has it been removed from service? I have checked all my browsers and it's gone (no changes to any of my gadgets, enables or beta components). Nate (chatter) 16:38, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

@Mrschimpf: If you mean this toolbar:
RefToolbar 1.0.png
...then it has indeed been removed. See the #Support_ends_for_the_2006_wikitext_editor section above; I'm currently working to re-implement it as a user script for those that prefer it. Writ Keeper  17:25, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Thank you, Writ Keeper, I liked that toolbar much better! If you are able to set that up, can you make some kind of announcement here, maybe start a new section heading so we will see it in the history - maybe something along the lines of "Rejoice, you can have your old toolbar back!" 0;-D And include simple instructions (preferably not in French) on how to implement it, for us tech-ignorant folks? --MelanieN (talk) 00:15, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks; sorry I missed it above (I just knew it as 'the older toolbar' and nothing else, so I didn't think of looking up there). I look forward to having it back in some form. Nate (chatter) 17:39, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
ARGH. So, some time back my software on my tablet updated and changed ...something... so that when I try to add bolding the “old fashioned way” it doesn’t work. Example: ‘’’Bold should be here’’’ but apparently whatever software change went on broke that. So, whatever, I adjusted and started using the toolbar instead. And now it’s gone and I am apparently unable to use bolding or italics. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:47, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
@Beeblebrox: You are using curly apostrophes (and indeed curly quotes too). Besides being advised against in text (see MOS:CURLY), they won't produce the desired markup either. You must use straight apostrophes - like this - for them to work. This is basic Wiki markup, see WP:CHEATSHEET. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:57, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
This is what I see in the editing window, but when I save it it’s ‘’’Bold’’’ and ‘’italics’’
The thing is, when I type them in they look like y always did, but when I save my edit they turn curly and I have no idea why. I’m pressing the same key I always did. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:28, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
I found the issue at some point my settings were changed to include smart punctuation which I have now turned off. Yay. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:42, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Missing edit shortcuts[edit]

I've noticed that over the last couple of days I appear to be missing the edit shortcuts (the line of icons above the edit box for lack of a better description) from the edit space in my Chrome browser. I haven't deactivated anything so I was wondering if there is a technical problem in the wiki syntax. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 22:36, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Yes, see #Support ends for the 2006 wikitext editor above. Killiondude (talk) 22:58, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Making links conditional on target status[edit]

Some category header templates now include automated links to portals, passing them to {{Portal}}. They only check whether the portals exist; they don't check whether the portals are ready for use, and some are not, e.g. Portal:1910s has been started but is tagged with {{Portal maintenance status|date=October 2018|incomplete=y|subpages=checked|broken=major}}.

Would it be feasible for {{Portal}} to check the status of the portal, and exclude broken ones? – Fayenatic London 13:38, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Yes. Modify Module:Portal to read the unparsed content of the portal page and look for {{Portal maintenance status}}. You can then have Module:portal take appropriate action whatever that might be.
Trappist the monk (talk) 13:46, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
Thank you very much, Trappist the monk. I did not realise there was a module:Portal. Please could you, or someone else reading this, insert a condition there so that the module will skip linking to a portal with status broken=major ? – Fayenatic London 08:25, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
I could, but I'm not sure that I should. I almost never venture into portal space, but your Portal:1910s example doesn't look all that broken to me; readers going there will find something so I guess that I'm not seeing this as a problem. If, as part of whatever construction is undertaken, the portal page displays huge red error messages, has broken html, or whatever, and if that condition will exist for a while, perhaps the best solution is to do portal development in a sandbox and then publish the sandbox version when it is ready for public consumption. This is, after all, why we have sandboxen. No new code to write, no new code to maintain.
Trappist the monk (talk) 09:38, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, if a portal is bad enough (for more a week or so while it is under construction) that it shouldn't be linked, then it shouldn't be in portal space at all but in draftspace. Galobtter (pingó mió) 09:43, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
Sandboxing is nice in theory, but some editors have been mass-producing automated portals with zero curation or maintenance. See recent discussions at WT:WPPORT and WT:PORTG#Notability_Discussion:_Revived. Also, their construction techniques use {{PAGENAME}} which probably wouldn't work in sandboxes.
There are currently 70+ portals tagged as broken (which places them in Category:Portals with errors in need of immediate attention), but no sign of them being actively attended to.
I have asked at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Portals#Portal_linkage_problems whether there is consensus to add the code suggested above. – Fayenatic London 10:13, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Draftspace isn't set up for portals, and portals don't work in draftspace. That is, their code doesn't work in draftspace, and when moved to draftspace, they become broken.    — The Transhumanist   00:46, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
What would happen to the portal box when it has a single link, and that link is not displayed?    — The Transhumanist   00:46, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
You pinged me into this conversation and then removed the {{ping}} so perhaps you don't want my participation here. Regardless, the answer to the question that you asked me is: I don't know. What happens to the portal box is dependent upon what the community determines to be the appropriate action for Module:Portal to take when it encounters |broken=major.
Trappist the monk (talk) 12:01, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Portals have features that may acquire regular readers who return to portals or regularly click on portal links for their news, DYKs, automatically updating content, and automatically added content. Having links disappear could be disruptive to those readers. If a portal becomes broken and its link disappears, regular readers may not know how to contact the right people to fix it. With a link to a broken portal in place, they would see the problem, and would have the opportunity to go to the portal's talk page to report it, or even collaborate with others to fix it. On the portal's talk page, they would see our link to the WikiProject, and could go there to report the problem as well. With no link, they lose those options. For veterans like us, that's no big deal. But for new Wikipedians, or readers who have limited editing experience, that could leave them almost helpless, scratching their heads. Having links disappear may also have other ramifications that we are not yet aware of. We don't want to hide the problems, we want to fix them, and we want anybody on the scene to be able to do it. A link to a broken portal should also be a route to the instructions on how to fix it, such as having a link to the portal instruction page on every portal's talk page. We need to enable people who use portals to be able to help maintain them, rather than remove the option to do so.    — The Transhumanist   01:06, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

A portal that becomes slightly broken, may still be helpful to readers, such as if its news feature is still working. Why remove access to that news if the image slideshow all of a sudden becomes empty because images were removed from the root article from where they were displayed? This creates a domino effect. We need to be careful not to fall into an all-or-nothing mindset. A partially functioning portal is still useful, especially to regular visitors of the portal system.    — The Transhumanist   01:15, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
I checked 3 portals at random listed at Category:Portals with errors in need of immediate attention, and they had no problems. That list is is making the problem look bigger than it really is, and introduces the problem of false positives.    — The Transhumanist   01:35, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

nbsp suppressed and ignored on mobile[edit]

At MV Hebridean Princess I replaced some fraction characters in the infobox (under "Installed power") with {{frac}} per MOS. Unfortunately {{frac|10|1|2}} (​10 12) line-breaks after the "10". Looking at the page source I see no trace of the &nbsp; that the template explicitly adds, so the only thing preventing the break is the nowrap class - which, in order to alleviate excessive use making things look bad on narrow screens, is disabled on mobile. <span style="white-space:nowrap">...</span> doesn't help. What's going on? I don't understand why the nbsp is disappearing. Hairy Dude (talk) 15:03, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

The nbsp is hidden offscreen by design, but that also makes it useless, as the character is not adjacent to other characters that way. The nowrap class is indeed currently disabled in infoboxes, because of the reason you mentioned. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 15:17, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
Isn't the nbsp in there so that environments lacking CSS (including copy-paste from the browser) gets "10 1⁄2" rather than "101⁄2"? And in that case, at least Firefox does avoid breaking at the non-breaking space despite it being inside tags. Anomie 21:18, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
It's also there for screen readers, but used in a slightly different position in this case. Graham87 09:26, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Can this issue be fixed? This is yet another instance when mobile users feel like second class citizens because basic expectations like no-break spaces not breaking don't hold because a handful of people behave badly in a way that's easily fixed with a single edit. Hairy Dude (talk) 11:58, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Hairy Dude, I have no real solution here for you. You want me to remove the line that disables nowrap on Mobile infoboxes, so that the infoboxes break again ? I can do that, but then I need to deal with complaints about that again. No matter which way I jump, people seem to be/get upset, making it a not so appetising topic to engage on. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:41, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Fair enough, but just let me say that I think a technical "fix" breaking basic functionality to solve a problem that's fundamentally social in nature is a very poor compromise. Hairy Dude (talk) 13:01, 7 November 2018 (UTC)


How difficult would it be to import VisualFileChange over from Commons to, so that users who are patrolling images can perform batch actions and avoid spamming user pages with multiple automatically generated Twinkle notifications? GMGtalk 12:37, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Some of this is prompted by some comments at User_talk:Ritchie333#How_to_go_from_here - which I have restated below (in modifed form) ...ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:43, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Convenience link. The script is stored in commons:MediaWiki:VisualFileChange.js and subpages, so to get it here we'd need a Meta sysop to first import it to Meta wiki and then an enwiki sysop imports it here. The main problems I could see is that the JS would need to be rewritten to accomodate different namespaces, templates etc (for example, on Commons file deletion discussions occur on dedicated subpages). and that there may be dependencies outside of the main JS file. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 12:48, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Does that mean we go to phab land I presume? I mean it seems like it could be beneficial to many projects, since it seems like doing this here would facilitate transfers to any other project also (if I understand correctly), and User:ShakespeareFan00 has already started spitballing improvements for our purposes, which if eventually implemented, could also cross pollinate back over to Commons. GMGtalk 12:54, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Prompted by some comments at User_talk:Ritchie333#How_to_go_from_here - which I will restate (in modifed form below) ...

"Would it be possible to have a multi-image/issue selector tool? That way a "wall" of notications could be be avoided, as the tool would let various issues be selected en-masse, and an image patroller could "batch" up requests, into ONE notifcation, perhaps for some uploaders containing ALL the media with issues that had been identified or flagged.

Alternatively (And possibly combined with the above), perhaps an upload "dashboard" (An extension of Special:ListFiles]] }} for users would be helpful, so that rather than seeing a wall of notifcations on the talk page, you get a 'bell' style notification in the UI, which links to the relevant concern in the image dashboard. This would also allow for the consideration that some people don't read their talk pages often, but do respond to the 'bell' or 'tray icons. (Not all CSD notifications or image tagging operations generate notifications, my custom notifcations)

Importing VisualFileChange from Commons, would be part of the soloution, as VFC can at least do multiple tags per image, or per batch as I understood it..

A more advanced tool than VFC would need to go further though, as VFC works on a 'batch' of images to apply the "same" set of issues. What would also be needed is a tool that can see a batch of images, and if needed apply 'differing' tags (by user selection on a per image basis if needed) in the batch. Some CSD are applied slightly differently if you have different license tags,to give an example. Some Tags need date= tag applied ( or on one of mine placed= tags, and so on. Once a set of images and associated tags are logged, the tool I am describing should generate ONE BIG notification covering all the affected media and issues, rather than a wall of notifcations like TWINKLE does when patrolling a lot of images.

Related Discussion on a "media" dashboard, vs talk page notifcations.[edit]

Alternatively (And possibly combined with the above), perhaps an upload "dashboard" (An extension of Special:ListFiles for users would be helpful, so that rather than seeing a wall of notifcations on the talk page, you get a 'bell' style notification in the UI, which links to the relevant concern in the image dashboard. This would also allow for the consideration that some people don't read their talk pages often, but do respond to the 'bell' or 'tray icons. (Not all CSD notifications or image tagging operations generate notifications, my custom notifcations)

Related consideration, When media you uploaded gets tagged for CSD , currently you get a Talk page notification in most instances.. Is there are mechanism for this instead to be a 'notification' instead?

Suggested format " <User X> has edited [[File:]] which you uploaded or restored... The edit is <link to diff> " or " <user X> has tagged [[File: ]] which you uploaded for <CSD criteria>, Please review your upload and take appropriate action.". Moving image issue notifcations from tak pages to a dedicated dshaboard or log, might also increase visibility and response to the notifcations. Other things which are image notifications that could be a 'bell' styule notifcation, might be listing at FFD, pending commons transfer (different from F2, F8 as such) and so on...

Such notifications should ideally be based on what a user has uploaded (without them needing to be explicitly placed in a Watchlist), (and potentially on File: pages contained in a Watchlist for that user.) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:57, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Umm...I'd say a good first step would be whether we can find a competent victim volunteer to just get the thing over here. GMGtalk 13:22, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
I don't think that you don't need to get the script imported, it's possible to install JavaScript that is hosted on another Wikimedia project. For example, I find User:Anomie/previewtemplatelastmod very useful (thanks Anomie), but it's not set up on Wicipedia Cymraeg, so I import it cross-wiki, see cy:Defnyddiwr:Redrose64/common.js. In this case I think that the required code is
placed in Special:Mypage/common.js. JavaScript experts, please confirm. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:56, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Remove the theme color meta tags!![edit]

I noticed this change recently. A meta tag for theme-color was added which makes the Android Chrome browser change the toolbar color of the OS.

First off, a website changing UI colors is a serious violation of disability accessibility standards. Websites run in a container and should never modify UI objects outside the browser. People with visual disabilities are impacted by color changes like this.

Second, the color chosen (light gray) causes severe eye strain in people sensitive to it. I am one of those people. This renders Wikipedia unusable by people with this disability.

Google enabled this awful "feature" with no way to disable it, so it is encumbant on websites to not use it.

Please remove this meta tag from Wikipedia. A website should not be changing UI colors outside the browser, and the current implimentation on Wikipedia makes it literally painful to use. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:57, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Heya IP, sorry you're frustrated. There was a recent change (and discussion) to account for the lack of clarity between the updated status bar on Android and the web content. The design and engineering folks put a change into effect that made the status bar consistent and distinguishable from the actual content. I've raised your concern of accessibility with the team to have them review in light of your considerations. CKoerner (WMF) (talk) 15:46, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
I agree that the color used should be chosen so that it meet the WCAG contrast requirements, but in this case, #EAECF0 has a 17.75 contrast ratio against black. That far exceeds the WCAG requirement of 4.5 for AA or 7 for AAA. In addition, saying that websites run in a container and should never modify the UI is a bit rediculous when this is a docuemented feature explicitly built in to the android operating system and the chrome browser. If this is an accessibility issue, it should be brought up with the Chrome or Android development team. If you want to disable a documented browser feature, I'd recommend switching to a different browser if this is an issue for you (for example, I'm not sure if Firefox for Android supports this tag, but if it does and doesn't have an option to disable it, you could install a greasemonkey script to strip it off). --Ahecht (TALK
) 16:05, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Wikidata driven interwiki links: Question[edit]

This action was reverted with the justification 'Wikidata will provide interwiki links'. If that is so, shouldn't bots be doing this. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 17:48, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

@Ancheta Wis: What is it you think bots should be doing? Wikidata does not need bots to provide interwiki links. --Izno (talk) 21:01, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
@Izno The Noise (electronic) article used to have a French interwiki link to Bruit de fond. Now it has an interwiki link to Bruit, which does not appear to me to be the same or to have the same content. On there are multiple articles on noise. So disambiguation is an issue. Right now there are editors making decisions on content, open-loop without discussion. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 12:14, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
@Ancheta Wis: You should request help on d:WD:PC; there is a French page there if you prefer French or you can speak in English at the English page. There are a number of French contributors at Wikidata who should be able to help you. --Izno (talk) 20:28, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Colors disappeared[edit]

Weird. I got used to seeing colors when I edited on Wikipedia. Now I don't see them.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:07, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

What colors you mean? Do you mean colors in the edit box when you are editing wiki pages? Stryn (talk) 20:15, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
And now the colors are back. I wonder what's going on. For example, the equals signs to the left and right of the heading (which is larger than the other text) are blue, and so are the Wikilinks and the colon and four tildes.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:16, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
Colors disappeared again. I also find that if I try to insert text, the text that was there disappears rather than being pushed to the right.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:37, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
@Vchimpanzee: Where are you seeing colors? In the edit box? What editor are you using if so? --Izno (talk) 21:03, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
This sounds like slow servers. Several times today I have failed to receive one or another of the CSS or JS pages that should be served to me when retrieving a Wikipedia page; I suspect that Vchimpanzee is experiencing the same problem. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:10, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
Per their description Vchimpanzee is talking about mw:CodeMirror syntax highlighting. Galobtter (pingó mió) 21:17, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
Redrose64 that sounds like the problem. Galobtter I never knew what it was called.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 21:26, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
I haven't seen colors all day. At both libraries I have been using Google Chrome. I have Edge at home.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 22:02, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Comment table and edit summaries[edit]

As of October 25 this year, we don't store edit summaries in the rev_comment column of the revision table anymore. Instead, we use the "comment" and "revision_comment_temp" tables. As a result, Sigma's edit summary search tool fails to display or detect edit summaries correctly for new edits made since October 25 this year, or old edits from April 2017 and earlier. Eventually, all edits will fail to display or detect edit summaries correctly. Is there any way we can update that tool to use the new tables? GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 03:11, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Did you ask Sigma? --Izno (talk) 03:25, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
See User talk:Σ#Tools wmflabs. Johnuniq (talk) 03:43, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
Note also backfilling of the new comment table is still a month or so from completion. So right now, to be fully comprehensive, you need to query revision and comment. MusikAnimal talk 01:05, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Category has negative contents[edit]

Negative contents.png

This is a screenshot of Category:Wikipedia categories that should not contain articles. Note the contents of one of its subcategories, Category:Wikipedia soft redirected categories: 72,403 C, -6 P. How can a category have a negative number of contents? Isn't that like someone having a height of -5 feet? I'm pretty sure the number of contents is a scalar quantity, not a vector :-) I just checked another of this category's parents, Category:Wikipedia categories, and the soft redirected categories still have -6 pages. If you enter the soft redirected categories category and scroll all the way down, it looks just like a category with no pages. At first I thought this might be because of the number of subcategories (with 200+ subcategories that precede the first page alphabetically, would I have to navigate until I found a page in its proper alphabetical place), but Category:Wikipedia non-diffusing parent categories has two pages that appear on the first page of results, even though they come far after the 200th subcategory. Nyttend (talk) 03:32, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Category counts have always been screwed up in various ways. In Category:CS1 errors, you can see that Category:CS1 errors: dates‎ is listed as having two subcategories, which is wrong, and it has been that way for many months. I assume that there are multiple phab tickets about these problems. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:31, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
phab:T18036 appears to be the primary ticket. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:11, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Request for permission[edit]

In which wikipedia page do I need to request for becoming a recent changes patroller?Adithyak1997 (talk) 09:47, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

There is no request. It's not a user group but just a term for editors who check recent changes. See Wikipedia:Recent changes patrol. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:05, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
The English Wikipedia does not use mw:Help:Patrolled edits for individual edits. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:04, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Upside down text[edit]

I have fixed it but does anyone know how this was done? Aoziwe (talk) 10:26, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Most characters have an inverted glyph somewhere in Unicode... it's probably some utility that a vandal was playing with. I suspect that this reverses the order of characters in a string and then replaces each character with it's inverted equivalent:
Some (l, s) map to themselves; some (n/u) are easy mappings because the inverted character is a valid Latin letter. The first step is dead easy, we did it as one of the first programming assignments at school; the second step requires a lookup table. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 10:42, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Redrose64 - seems like a lot of trouble for a vandal. Aoziwe (talk) 10:59, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

It took seconds to find with the first tested Google search online invert letters. It's also first for your heading Upside down text.PrimeHunter (talk) 12:50, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. Aoziwe (talk) 12:58, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
˙op oʇ ʎsɐǝ ʎɹǝʌ ʇᴉ sǝʞɐɯ ʎllɐnʇɔɐ ǝʇᴉs ʇɐɥ┴ Home Lander (talk) 00:54, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
see User:Plastikspork/flipsummary.js :) Frietjes (talk) 18:42, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Upside down text is so last year. Iridescent 18:53, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Jeebus. I almost ordered a new computer. ―Mandruss  18:56, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
What is that mess? I cannot read the diff, nor this edit window (which has slowed to a crawl); even my watchlist is screwed with little squares all over the edit summaries for about twelve lines. Please don't do it again. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:10, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
How about we edit-filter that shit? Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 19:19, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
I'm not sure it would be possible to edit filter Zalgo text; because it's made of the standard ASCII character set plus combined diacritics as opposed to specialist and obscure unicode, the diacritics used differ each time, and there are many legitimate uses for diacritics, I can't see how you could write a script that wouldn't hit too many false positives. (This is precisely why vandals—on all user-generated sites, not just Wikipedia—like it so much.) On the plus side, because it screws up the formatting and page history so visibly, it's very easy to spot, so it rarely stays live for long. On upside-down text, it probably wouldn't be possible to filter at all, as all the symbols used have legitimate uses. ‑ Iridescent 19:32, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

New IAdmin request[edit]

Hi, all, I've requested IAdmin over at WP:BN. Thanks! Writ Keeper  20:42, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Updating a tool[edit]

Can a user like me update a wmf lab tool? I am talking about Firefly Tools which is helpful in showing the Linter category count.Adithyak1997 (talk) 18:20, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

@Adithyak1997: WMFLabs is just a hosting site for user-created tools. That particular tool is maintained by firefly. I would contact him if you would like to contribute. There is already a thread on his talk page about the tool not updating recently: User talk:Firefly#Firefly Linter page not updating?. --Ahecht (TALK
) 22:19, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
The thread in his user page was the reason due to which I thought of contributing to it.Adithyak1997 (talk) 04:22, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Template comparison tool[edit]

As discussed some time ago (HT User:Plastikspork), we could do with a tool to facilitate the comparison of related templates to decide whether or not to merge them.

The tool would do the following, for two (or more?) templates:

  • determine the list of parameters in each (perhaps from raw code; perhaps from TemplateData; perhaps from {{Parameter names example}})
  • sort them
  • remove those that are the same in both cases
  • produce a list of the differing parameters

Can someone make a tool to do this, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:49, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing: This might be a good candidate for the meta:Community Wishlist Survey 2019, if you can get a proposal in in the next couple of days. --Ahecht (TALK
) 22:21, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
You could use the TemplateData GUI editor to produce a list of (most) parameters from the code. From there, I think that a quick round of grep -xvf would produce the list of unmatched options, for manual review. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:23, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Here is a module hack that, for the purposes of proof-of-concept compares {{cite book/old}} against {{cite journal/old}} (these are the pre-Lua cs1 templates). The output is merely the raw mw.dumpObject() return value and can be prettified to suit:
{{#invoke:Sandbox/trappist the monk/template compare|compare|Template:Cite book/old|Template:Cite journal/old}}
table#1 {
 ["Embargo"] = "Cite journal/old",
 ["department"] = "Cite journal/old",
 ["issue"] = "Cite journal/old",
 ["journal"] = "Cite journal/old",
 ["magazine"] = "Cite journal/old",
 ["newspaper"] = "Cite journal/old",
 ["number"] = "Cite journal/old",
 ["periodical"] = "Cite journal/old",
 ["section"] = "Cite book/old",
 ["sectionurl"] = "Cite book/old",
 ["trans_chapter"] = "Cite book/old",
 ["work"] = "Cite journal/old",
Trappist the monk (talk) 18:15, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Pigsonthewing, I adapted some javascript that I wrote for "User:Frietjes/addcheckforunknownparameters.js" to create "User:Frietjes/templatecompare.js". once installed, you go to "Special:TemplateCompare" and put in the list of templates to compare. if you see a "Did not finish processing" alert, then let me know, and I will adjust the regular expressions to try to get complete processing for that particular template. I tested it on {{cite book/old}} against {{cite journal/old}} and it looks like it's working there. Frietjes (talk) 21:04, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Frietjes, a first column for the parameters is missing which is offsetting the columns by one. --Gonnym (talk) 08:21, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
Gonnym, fixed, and I added an html preview for the wikitable. Frietjes (talk) 14:18, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
@Frietjes: Thank you. More often than not, I'm not seeing the list-of-parameters table. It does appear intermittently. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:31, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing:, it could be taking some time to process the templates. I put the pop-up alerts in there to show the progress through the script. if you have particular examples you want me to help debug, let me know. Frietjes (talk) 13:33, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
@Frietjes: I've just tried {{Infobox event}} vs. {{Infobox civilian attack}} and after five minutes nothing had rendered. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:10, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing:, you are correct. it was failing on the expandtemplates for some reason, which is only used to show a preview of the wikitext. I switched this to something else, it is working for me now. Frietjes (talk) 20:28, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
now documented at User:Frietjes/templatecompare. Frietjes (talk) 00:15, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Issue with my Special:Contributions page?[edit]

For some reason, my Special:Contributions page looked like this earlier: (Imgur link). It was the case whether I was logged in, logged out, using Chrome or using Edge. The problem appears to have since been resolved, but still. What happened here? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 20:46, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

It also happened to me for all tested contributions pages, logged in or out in two browsers. It was right after the English Wikipedia got mw:MediaWiki 1.33/wmf.3 today 20:28.[1] It lasted a few minutes. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:02, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
WP:ITSTHURSDAY. --Izno (talk) 21:13, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
@Narutolovehinata5: It did that for me just once; a WP:BYPASS fixed it immediately. BTW, please don't upload screenshots to imgur - the page takes a long time to load, my antivirus software complains, and my PC slows to a crawl necessitating a reboot. Better methods are available. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:39, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
This is apparently still happening when the page is transcluded (see my sandbox). I have a ticket open because it recently started breaking MathML rendering (see phab:T209446). — AfroThundr (u · t · c) 01:34, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Edit conflicts: updated beta feature[edit]

Today on (8th November), a beta feature on your wiki has changed: The two-column edit conflict view got a new interface to allow you to solve edit conflicts more easily. The feature comes from the German community’s Technical Wishlist. Learn more on the project page. -- Michael Schönitzer (WMDE) (talk) 21:20, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Transclusion help needed[edit]

I have been trying to transclude the contents of Portal:Music/DateOfBirth/November 9 to a page in Portal:Record production. When I use {{Portal:Music/DateOfBirth/November 9}} the contents of {{Portal:Music/DateOfBirth}} transcludes, irrespective of the date used. Having tried to figure out why, I am thoroughly perplexed. Can someone help me understand why it doesn't work (or better, how to make it work)? Thank you.--John Cline (talk) 10:40, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

@John Cline: you don't state what "a page in Portal:Record production" actually is, and I can't tell from your recent edits which page this might be. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 10:52, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
I'm sorry Redrose64. I haven't saved any changes because they never worked in preview. The page is Portal:Record production/DateOfBirth. Thank you.--John Cline (talk) 11:01, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
@John Cline: Portal:Music/DateOfBirth/November 9 transcludes Portal:Music/DateOfBirth/November which transcludes {{Calendar}} which has pagename-dependent behaviour to make a calendar with dates and links corresponding to the page it is on. The transclusion should be in <noinclude>...</noinclude> like [2] so the calendar is only made on the page itself. Most other dates already do it.[3] This search looks for dates missing this <noinclude>...</noinclude>. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:30, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Thank you PrimeHunter, and Redrose64. The insource: search parameters will be quite useful going forward as well. I really appreciate the help.--John Cline (talk) 11:53, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

can't remove username from login page[edit]

When i press shift+del in chrome on windows after highlighting the username, chrome only removes the password, and the username is offered the next time one clicks on "log in". --Espoo (talk) 17:58, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

@Espoo: try clearing your cache, forms, and WMF cookies. — xaosflux Talk 22:43, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. It would be important to provide a button after logging out that automates that for users, most of whom don't know they have to do that or how to do that. --Espoo (talk) 07:17, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Those are controls about options in your browser which we don't control. One tip that might be good for your use case, use "private browsing" sessions, Microsoft, Google, and Mozilla browsers support these and won't remember anything from that session. — xaosflux Talk 17:06, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
...assuming that you don't mind logging in repeatedly. I accidentally had a wiki page in "private browsing" mode a few week ago, and it took me a while to figure out why it kept demanding that I log in over and over and over. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 23:31, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

RM discussion for Template:La and others[edit]

A WP:RM discussion at Template_talk:Ln#Requested_move_28_October_2018 to move the various "namespace links" templates from short names (i.e. {{la}} or {{lh}}) to more descriptive names (i.e. {{Article links}} or {{Help links}}) is currently open for discussion. The short forms would remain redirects and still work. This naming discussion may be of interest to readers of this noticeboard. power~enwiki (π, ν) 20:38, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Accessing parent template params from a subtemplate[edit]


Is a subtemplate able to access the parameters of its parent template without them being included in the subtemplate's call string? For example, suppose I call {{x1|a=1|b=2|c=3|d=4|e=5|...|z=26|aa=101|bb=252|...|zz=26926}} and the code of {{x1}} in turn calls {{x2|1=a|2=aa|3=zz}}. I'd like for {{x2}} to have access to all of the {{x1}}'s parameters, so that, for example, within {{x2}} I could invoke the following:

  1. {{{ {{{1}}}}}} → {{{a}}} → 1
  2. {{{ {{{2}}}}}} → {{{aa}}} → 101
  3. {{{ {{{3}}}}}} → {{{zz}}} → 26926
  4. {{{ {{{1}}}{{{1}}}}}} → {{{aa}}} → 101

The only solutions I can think of are:

  • Append all {{x1}} parameters when invoking {{x2}}: {{x2|1=a|2=aa|3=zz||a=1|b=2|c=3|d=4|e=5|...|z=26|aa=11|bb=22|...|zz=2626}}
  • Expand all of the parameters when invoking {{x2}}: {{x2|1={{{a}}}|2={{{aa}}}|3={{{zz}}}}}

However, for my particular application, neither of these is workable. The first is unworkable because my x1 has about 200 parameters and invokes x1 multiple times, which I'd like to have appear on consecutive lines. The second is unworkable because my x2 mangles its input parameter values something like example 4 above so that each x2 parameter is actually used to select up to five different x1 parameters, and if include them all, then my x2 invocations won't fit on a single line. Any ideas? YBG (talk) 21:23, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Lua modules can do this using frame:getParent(), but it is impossible to do in Wikitext, so this could be accomplished by luafying {{x2}} (or writing a wrapper in lua. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 21:38, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
@Pppery: Thanks! YBG (talk) 21:57, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

WP:SPI "Date filed" showing an error for some investigations?[edit]

Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/JoshuSasori was filed in July, not October 11; I checked a few others and most of them seemed to be accurate, but Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Boyhoodjams shows as having been filed on October 13 despite the multiple entries apparently having been filed between August 29 and September 4. I'm fairly certain I know why (both pages were subject to a particular kind of disruptive vandalism), but I was wondering if there was any way to remedy it? Hijiri 88 (やや) 08:07, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Regarding your second example, the date was changed in this edit after a vandal moved the casepage. That means when a page is moved, the bots probably assumes it's a new filing. May be it should stop. So you can ask Amalthea the botop of the bot that updates Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Cases/Overview for that, though it looks he has not edited for a while. –Ammarpad (talk) 10:39, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
@Hijiri88: 'Date filed' is actually 'date the page was added to Category:Open SPI cases', because this is cheap and easy to figure out. There's currently no way to change that I'm afraid. Amalthea 08:54, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Script issues[edit]

Following a query (on my talk page), I tried the usual troubleshooting actions, but cannot understand why my Engvar script doesn't work in isolation and in the context of another user's monobook script (meaning the button doesn't dislay in the side bar when supposedly installed). I did find however, that all my scripts become callable from within my monoboook files. My workaround is to advise importing my monobook.js file by pasting the instruction:

importScript("User:Ohconfucius/monobook.js"); while removing importScript("User:Ohconfucius/script/EngvarB.js");

The consequence, however, is that it creates a very busy the sidebar above all for the users who have no utility for my other scripts, but at least it seems like an acceptable work-around for me. What could be the problem? -- Ohc ¡digame! 09:35, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

This sounds like your Engvar script has some dependencies that are resolved by the presence of one or more of the other scripts in your monobook.js - try removing scripts one at a time from monobook.js until EngvarB.js fails. Then examine the last one removed, to see what it does that Engvar might depend upon. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:53, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

"Edit your list of watched pages"[edit]

PHP fatal error: entire web request took longer than 60 seconds and timed out: Supposedly because of maintenance, but it's been doing this for hours. Any ideas? ——SerialNumber54129 14:22, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

@Serial Number 54129: do you have more than 5000 pages on your watchlist? Are you able to access Special:EditWatchlist/raw? — xaosflux Talk 15:20, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
@Xaosflux: Err: yes, 26,057...I wanted to cut it down a bit you see. Great though, yes I can access the raw list. Is that a little odd? Thanks for your help Xf. ——SerialNumber54129 15:48, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
@Serial Number 54129: sounds a lot like the mostly ignored phab:T41510. Prior discussions seem to be along the lines of "1>When my watchlist is huge it doesn't work. 2>Don't use a huge watchlist". — xaosflux Talk 16:51, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
I've been bothered by the obvious move of the raw link only to where you have to load the pretty edit-watchlist page, so unless you know the raw page is there, you're screwed with super-long watchlists. Tempted to file a phab about it. --Izno (talk) 15:58, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
@Izno: where would you want it to appear? — xaosflux Talk 16:48, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
If anyone wonders what this is about: With the current default preferences, the top of Special:Watchlist has a single large button "Edit your list of watched pages", and no link to the raw list. If "Hide the improved version of the Watchlist" is enabled at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist then you instead get smaller "View and edit watchlist | Edit raw watchlist" next to eachother. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:30, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter: when you end up at Special:EditWatchlist are you getting the 'raw' option at the top still? — xaosflux Talk 20:22, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Yes. I only meant the option is not directly in Special:Watchlist by default. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:27, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter: OK, yeah sure why not? Going to require a fight with those OOUI devs though :( The messages on the orinal WL are:
(watchlistfor2: Username, (parentheses: (watchlisttools-view)(pipe-separator)(watchlisttools-edit)(pipe-separator)(watchlisttools-raw)(pipe-separator)(watchlisttools-clear)))
I turned off that horrid "improved" watchlist the second it came out! — xaosflux Talk 20:53, 10 November 2018 (UTC)



What is this and how does it work? I've never seen iarchive: before (the macro? not the site). Thanks -- GreenC 00:20, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Technically that magic is due to meta:Interwiki map and the entry for IArchive appears to have been added in November 2013 following a discussion here. Johnuniq (talk) 00:33, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
Interesting, thanks. I had no idea interwiki maps extended beyond the wikis. One more complication for bot writers :) -- GreenC 00:46, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
If you have a bot that's dealing with interwiki links, you should probably be getting the list from action=query&meta=siteinfo&siprop=interwikimap rather than having to know about meta:Interwiki map. Anomie 15:37, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
And Special:Interwiki shows in human-friendly form what MediaWiki currently uses. meta:Interwiki map is where the interwiki prefixes are created and edited but there can be a long delay before changes are imported into MediaWiki. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:41, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Earwig's Copyvio Detector[edit]

I am trying to use Earwig's Copyvio Detector to search a document in draft space for copyright violations, using the search engine. After it connects to wmflabs, it says that no sources were checked, and the probability of a copyright violation is 0%. Well, it should be 0% if there was no searching. What causes it not to search anything, and what do I do to correct this, to get it to search? Robert McClenon (talk) 07:09, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Robert McClenon, I'm getting the same issue. IIRC, it happens because too many people have already ran it within the last day. Home Lander (talk) 21:45, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
This probably happened because there was discussion about copyright violations on drafts, and the reviewers were checking the drafts. The screen refers to a cache. Maybe the cache becomes full, and the tool doesn't handle that well. Does User:Earwig still maintain the tool? Robert McClenon (talk) 01:12, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
That user hasn't, butThe Earwig would be a better person to ask. :-) Graham87 07:25, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. Robert McClenon, I looked, and there doesn't seem to be any systemic problem with the tool right now. In general, you'll see that if every phrase from the article the tool attempted to search for in Google returned no results, and it has nothing else to go off of. The tool picks phrases at random throughout the article, so it could have gotten unlucky, or maybe the draft is truly unique, or maybe Google had some kind of problem. In my experience, if we've reached the daily request quota, you'd see a different error, but that may have changed. There shouldn't be any issues related to caches becoming full. If you give me the name of the draft, I can look more closely, but I can't be much more specific without further details. — Earwig talk 03:05, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
User:The Earwig - Try Draft:How to be a strong personality. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:09, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
Robert McClenon, indeed, every sentence in that article is unique (at least as far as Google is aware). No sources were checked because no potential sources were found. (If you look at the top right, where it says "generated in X seconds using 8 queries", that tells us eight separate searches were made, and none of them turned up any hits.) — Earwig talk 02:23, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Multiple Short Description[edit]

In many of the pages, I was able to see that there are multiple short descriptions occurring for a single article. Both of them are same. For example, consider the page Kondotty. I know there are two short descriptions, one from wikidata and other from wikipedia. But I guess the short description from wikidata was overridden with the one from wikipedia as requested by English wikipedia.Adithyak1997 (talk) 10:54, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Yes. Kondotty uses {{Infobox settlement}} which automatically creates a Wikipedia:Short description. It can be overridden with short_description, the last parameter at Template:Infobox settlement#Other information. "Page information" in the left pane shows both the local and Wikidata description.[4] See also {{Short description}}. 12:22, 11 November 2018 (UTC)PrimeHunter (talk)
@PrimeHunter:So in such a case, shouldn't there be a condition set to display only one of them? I mean, in cases where there are two short descriptions, shouldn't there be a criteria to display only one of them?Adithyak1997 (talk) 14:25, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
Only if you display the descriptions by CSS are multiple descriptions shown. One description is actually used. Galobtter (pingó mió) 14:30, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
None of them are actually displayed by default in the desktop version of Wikipedia. User:Adithyak1997/common.css and User:Adithyak1997/common.js both have code to display short descriptions. The bottom of Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets has "Show page description beneath the page title". It is disabled by default. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:09, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

& n d a s h ; rendering problem[edit]

Suddenly I'm seeing &ndash, (with a comma, followed by a blank space) where formerly I saw an actual en-dash. Is it just me or my laptop, or has this suddenly stopped working? There are probably over a million occurrences of this within Wikipedia. Michael Hardy (talk) 19:39, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Michael Hardy, See this discussion. Ping Trappist the monk because updating the live modules to fix the issue seems quite overdue. Galobtter (pingó mió) 19:51, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Where are the Mapframe parameters?[edit]

Several pages that use a Template:Infobox building show a map; eg. Instituto Técnico Militar and Bacardi Building (Havana)...but where are the mapframe parameters for adjusting or changing the map? It is not embedded. If I copy the whole page to my sandbox, the map disappears. If I print the page, it shows: <mapframe zoom"10' frameless="1"...etc, etc </mapframe> under the image of the! ovA_165443 (talk) 21:05, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

@Osvaldo valdes 165443: Template:Infobox building#Mapframe maps shows optional mapframe parameters to adjust the map in the infobox. The coordinates in your examples are taken from the Wikidata item for the article. Click "Wikidata item" under "Tools" in the left pane of the article. I don't think Template:Infobox building can replace the whole mapframe map. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:34, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Main Page responsive design[edit]

A proposal to add responsive design to the main page was briefly implemented, then reverted after problems for certain browsers and gadgets showed up. Before trying to run it live again, it would be beneficial to do some testing with some different browsers and such. Anyone want to take a look at User:Yair rand/MPSandbox and report whether you see any issues? --Yair rand (talk) 21:38, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Green tickY Looks good here, Windows 10 Home with Google Chrome. Home Lander (talk) 21:43, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
Green tickY Also looks good on Debian Testing with Firefox Nightly. — AfroThundr (u · t · c) 03:53, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
Looks fine to me on several older iOS devices. I'd also highly advise to not rollback on every single bug that is being found when this only effects minute amounts of users. That leads to months long cycles that aren't very productive and actually hurt testing. Rollout and fix where issues are reported. The burden upon people working on this to have tested it against BB10s is unreasonable, there is no problem with such a small user groups NOT being able to use a single page for a couple of days, while others work to fix the problems. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 09:02, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Blacklisted IP talk pages[edit]

I recall sometime back discussing on here about an IP talk page that could not be created because it was blacklisted. User talk:2600:1700:8680:E900:8C6F:CAC6:D0E0:A9EB just exhibited the same behavior; the message intended to be left there was left at the user page instead, and a sysop had to move the page to the correct location. I recall this issue having something to do with a rule on the title blacklist; can IP talk pages be exempted from whatever it is? Home Lander (talk) 21:42, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 167#IP talk page blacklisted? was about a blacklist entry for moves at MediaWiki:Titleblacklist:
.*\p{Lu}(\P{L}*\p{Lu}){9}.* <casesensitive | moveonly>  # Disallows moves with more than nine consecutive capital letters
I don't see anything preventing a normal creation of User talk:2600:1700:8680:E900:8C6F:CAC6:D0E0:A9EB. I guess User:2600:1700:8680:E900:8C6F:CAC6:D0E0:A9EB was created by mistake instead of the talk page and then non-admins couldn't make a page move to the talk page. Moves to any page in the userspace of an IPv6 address with more than nine letters will match the rule but moves to IP userspace should be rare. Requests can be posted to MediaWiki talk:Titleblacklist. I see you already made a declined request about the old case at MediaWiki talk:Titleblacklist#IP talk pages blocked from moves. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:16, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Populated category redirect[edit]

Category:Non-talk pages requesting an edit to a protected page now redirects to Category:Non-talk pages with an edit request template but is populated by Module:Protected edit request/active/sandbox and Module:Protected edit request/sandbox, both of which have some syntax problems that means edits can't be made to them until they're fixed. Can anyone with the tech knowledge sort them out? Timrollpickering 11:55, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Looks like you took care of it. ~ Amory (utc) 19:30, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Tech News: 2018-46[edit]

19:21, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Regular expression to add flag icons and country links to country list[edit]

Please see these table updates:

Can anyone give me the regular expressions to quickly link all the country names, and to add the same flag icon wikitext that currently exist on the article pages:

I have Notepad++ and NoteTab Light installed. Both text editors allow use of regular expressions, etc.. Their syntax is not the same though.

This is the wikitext I need to add:

{{flagcountry|Country name}}

It adds the flag icon and makes the country name into a link.

Basically I need the regular expression to wrap all the text in the first cell of each line with the flagcountry template.

I will add the instructions to here:

--Timeshifter (talk) 11:59, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

@Timeshifter: I don't know your text editor syntax but our default source editor has regular expressions on "Advanced" followed by the search and replace icon on the right. There it works to search for (\|-.*\n\|\s*)([^\|\n]*) and replace with $1{{flagcountry|$2}}. Select "Treat search string as a regular expression" before clicking "Replace all". PrimeHunter (talk) 17:04, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter: Wow, this is going to help a lot of people making tables, and especially in updating tables. Thanks!!! See an example, along with some how-to info:
--Timeshifter (talk) 02:05, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Separate buttons for single and double bracket links in the editing toolbar[edit]

My current editing toolbar has a single button for links. It is slow to create links this way. The 2 buttons were much faster.

Is there any editing toolbar that has both buttons? --Timeshifter (talk) 11:07, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Timeshifter can you explain why this is slow ? I do paste, hit enter and I'm done ? —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:59, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
I use the wikitext editor. For internal links I select the internal link text, hit the link button, and then hit enter or "insert link". That is 2 steps. In the past it was 1 step. No "insert link" popup box.
For external links. I have to cut the text or the URL from the wikitext editing window, then click the link button, and paste it into the insert link box, and then hunt around for the other part, and then paste it into the insert link box, and then hit enter or "insert link". It's a nightmare compared to before.
It was much easier until very recently with the old toolbar that had separate buttons for single and double bracket links. I could set up right in the wikitext editing window.
I don't use the visual editor since I usually only do quick little edits that are much faster in the wikitext editor versus waiting for the visual editor to load. Which can be a long time in even articles of average length.
The wikitext editor opens a section almost instantly. And until very recently adding an external link was almost instant too. Single click. No "insert link" popup box.
--Timeshifter (talk) 12:18, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
Timeshifter, well you can also just type the brackets. Even faster and you don't need to move your hand to your mouse. And they are of course right beneath the edit area in the Wikitext section of the char inserter as well. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:20, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
For an [[internal link]] that's 6 clicks versus 1 click. You have to place the cursor on each end. Gotta do that with a mouse if the link is buried in a paragraph. --Timeshifter (talk) 12:28, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
6 ? No... ah. Don't click the [ characters. Choose the drop-down "Wiki markup" and use the [[]] inserter. One click (well two the first time you switch the menu). —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:37, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
I am not seeing a drop-down "Wiki markup" in my wikitext editing toolbar. I only see the link button icon consisting of intertwined chain links. --Timeshifter (talk) 12:54, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
Wikitext editing toolbar.jpg
I uploaded a screenshot of the wikitext editing toolbar I am seeing now. I could not find anything that was exactly what I was seeing in this category:
commons:Category:MediaWiki edit toolbar screenshots
I think this below is close to the wikitext editing toolbar I was using until recently:
MediaWiki edit toolbar.png
--Timeshifter (talk) 13:30, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
@Timeshifter: No, I mean this CharInsert-it.PNG (italian version, but it looks similar), which is positioned directly underneath the textarea and is a gadget enabled by default for all users. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 13:51, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
Let me try it here and [here]. OK, thanks a lot. That will work. Would be nice though to have those 2 buttons at the top too, instead of the popup "insert link" box from the top toolbar button which is for newbs, but only slows down experienced editors. I often have to scroll to get to the toolbar. Having my favorite buttons at both the top and bottom would speed things up and allow me and others to make more edits. That adds up. Maybe there could be a way to have custom toolbars. Where I could pick and choose buttons. Kind of like how one can customize Firefox with button placement in various locations of one's choice. I just had to scroll to find the signature button I prefer. The one that puts 2 dashes in front. :) --Timeshifter (talk) 14:28, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

(unindent). @TheDJ: No joy! After a day of use, I find this to be no help. I am usually editing at the top of the textarea in the editing window. But the single-bracket link is at the bottom of the textarea window. So I have select at the top, scroll to the bottom, be careful not to click wrongly in the interim, and then click the [] icon at the bottom. Then scroll back up to do more work. And often the wiki markup dropdown is back to being closed. So many steps, clicks, and scrolls involved just to add a couple brackets.

I am baffled as to how this could get past the MediaWiki developers. I mean it is absolutely basic to wiki editing by wiki editors across many different type of wikis. Experienced editors often use the wikitext editor. And I believe we were promised long ago that the wikitext editor would never be phased out without approval by users. Single-brackets are used all the time in wikis outside Wikimedia. Because external links are often more common than internal links.

I believe there used to be a way in preferences to turn off these popup "aids" such as the insert link popup box.

There is an easy fix. Just add an option in preferences to add those 2 wiki markup buttons to the toolbar: [] and [[]] --Timeshifter (talk) 02:20, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Problem with Parsoid gadget[edit]

Are there any users who use the gadget Parsoid which is used for Linter purpose? If yes, please check [this] link for my problem statement.Adithyak1997 (talk) 15:55, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

revision deletion limitations?[edit]

Are there limitations on the number of versions that can be revision deleted in one action? I'm trying to respond to the RD one request at Mohamed Naguib, which involves more than 250 versions. I tried twice, and each time the browser tab crashed. I'm happy to do it in chunks, but thought I'd check here first in case there's something I need to know.--S Philbrick(Talk) 15:58, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

@Sphilbrick: you should not have issue with under 1000 (but also see phab:T207530 for slow enwiki deletions going on). — xaosflux Talk 16:05, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
I find attempting anything over 200 in one go and the operation usually fails, so I just go in chunks. Nthep (talk) 16:13, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
Nthep, Thanks for the report. Needing to do more than 200 is rare enough that it is hardly worth investigating. I'll just remember to do chunks of <200. S Philbrick(Talk) 16:17, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
Xaosflux, FTR, I tried a third time, it crashed.
Then I tried in chunks, one of about 100, one of 150, and one more for the rest, and that worked.
I'll treat this as a one-off, but if it happens again, I'll file a report. S Philbrick(Talk) 16:15, 13 November 2018 (UTC)